I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry, a democrat, is a
certified pilot, I saw a quick episode of him flying a plane in left seat.
There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a low
wing. Just wanted to share what I saw.

Toks Desalu

Yup.

Let's put someone in the White House who can talk sense to the Secret
Service and homeland security wackos about general aviation.

Pilots Database Search Result
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Name : KERRY, JOHN FORBES
Pilot's Address : 19 LOUISBURG SQ
BOSTON, MA, 02108-1202
FAA Region : New England
Date of Medical : Dec, 2003
Class of Medical : 2
Expiration : Dec, 2004
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Sea
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
Glider Aero Tow (Private Pilot)



--
Roger Long
Toks Desalu > wrote in message
news:PnSQb.149453$na.246236@attbi_s04...
> I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry, a democrat, is
a
> certified pilot, I saw a quick episode of him flying a plane in left seat.
> There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a
low
> wing. Just wanted to share what I saw.
>
> Toks Desalu
>
>

"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
> There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a
low
> wing.

Well, there's at least one redeeming quality. However, I think he's
probably a highwinger in drag. I just can't imagine him in the Whitehouse
at this moment in history any more than I could imagine Algore there.

--
Jim Fisher

Thanks for that info, Toks. Definitely raises my opinion of Kerry.

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
> > There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a
> low
> > wing.
>
> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality. However, I think he's
> probably a highwinger in drag. I just can't imagine him in the
Whitehouse
> at this moment in history any more than I could imagine Algore there.

That's the problem we have these days. Everyone knows Bush was AWOL during
his National Guard days, and then he goes on to to wear a flight suit and
some people think he is a great leader. Today Ed Gillespie was just stunned
that anyone would say that about Bush.

But, it is the truth. Everyone knows it too.

"Gerry Preston" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for that info, Toks. Definitely raises my opinion of Kerry.

It's amazing what people as the basis of picking their exalted leaders! :~(

In article >, Gerry Preston
> wrote:

> Thanks for that info, Toks. Definitely raises my opinion of Kerry.

So, Kerry's voting record is consistent (or even occasionally)
supportive of aviation or GA?

--
Bob Noel

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Gerry Preston
> > wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that info, Toks. Definitely raises my opinion of Kerry.
>
> So, Kerry's voting record is consistent (or even occasionally)
> supportive of aviation or GA?

Kerry is a class warrier, what do you think?

"Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> That's the problem we have these days. Everyone knows Bush was AWOL during
> his National Guard days,

Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what happened.
However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or twenty in
my younger years, too.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html seems to be a fairly decent
accout of what actually happened but leave much to interpretation.

and then he goes on to to wear a flight suit and
> some people think he is a great leader.

'Cause he is . . . But history will have to be the final judge to that, I
reckon.

--
Jim Fisher

--

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> > That's the problem we have these days. Everyone knows Bush was AWOL
during
> > his National Guard days,
>
> Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what happened.
> However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or twenty
in
> my younger years, too.

It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill attendance was
optional.

>
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html seems to be a fairly
decent
> accout of what actually happened but leave much to interpretation.
>
> and then he goes on to to wear a flight suit and
> > some people think he is a great leader.
>
> 'Cause he is . . . But history will have to be the final judge to that, I
> reckon.

I think it is cool that the President got a little stick time.

Imagine again, Jim. A Reuters poll today had Kerry leading Bush 48 to 45 per
cent (the rest undecided) if the election was held tomorrow. November's a
long way away, though.


"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
> > There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a
> low
> > wing.
>
> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality. However, I think he's
> probably a highwinger in drag. I just can't imagine him in the
Whitehouse
> at this moment in history any more than I could imagine Algore there.
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
>

> I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry,
> a democrat, is a certified pilot,
--snip--

Are any of the other candidates currently or formerly pilots?

Clark
Dean
Edwards
Kucinich
LaRouche
Lieberman
Sharpton
Others?

(John F. Kennedy, Jr., at one time a potential democratic candidate
for almost any office, was a pilot, too. He and his wife died in a
plane crash off of Cape Cod (MA) in 1999.)







--
Sent by xanadoof from yahoo part from com
This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header.
Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com

"Blue Thunder" > wrote in message
u...
> > I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry,
> > a democrat, is a certified pilot,
> --snip--
>
> Are any of the other candidates currently or formerly pilots?
>
> Clark
> Dean
> Edwards
> Kucinich
> LaRouche
> Lieberman
> Sharpton
> Others?
>
> (John F. Kennedy, Jr., at one time a potential democratic candidate
> for almost any office, was a pilot, too. He and his wife died in a
> plane crash off of Cape Cod (MA) in 1999.)

He shouldn't have been thinking about running for Senator from NY in 2000.
:)

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> > Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> > responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
happened.
> > However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or twenty
> in
> > my younger years, too.
>
> It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill attendance
was
> optional.

Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's connections,
he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and even then
did not have the balls to meet his commitment. Now that may not mean much to
you, but to me it says a whole lot about character.

"Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
news:khYQb.117895$sv6.636439@attbi_s52...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> > > responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
happened.
> > > However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or
twenty in
> > > my younger years, too.
> >
> > It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill attendance
was
> > optional.
>
> Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's
connections,
> he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and even
then
> did not have the balls to meet his commitment.

There were open slots in the ANG in Texas, for anyone elidgeable. When GW's
F-102 unit changed over to a new airplane, there was no way they were going
to pay to retrain a short timer. GW's job would have been to sit at a desk
doing nothing.

> Now that may not mean much to
> you, but to me it says a whole lot about character.

You telling a lie tells me something about your character, but I fail to see
how that reflects on anyone else.

Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President and
avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
--
Roger Long

Pilot Bob > wrote in message
news:khYQb.117895$sv6.636439@attbi_s52...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> > > responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
> happened.
> > > However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or
twenty
> > in
> > > my younger years, too.
> >
> > It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill attendance
> was
> > optional.
>
> Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's
connections,
> he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and even
then
> did not have the balls to meet his commitment. Now that may not mean much
to
> you, but to me it says a whole lot about character.
>
>

"Henry Kisor" > wrote in message

> ....A Reuters poll today had Kerry leading Bush 48 to 45 per
> cent (the rest undecided) if the election was held tomorrow. November's a
> long way away, though.

This is pretty typical during an "out party" primary. All we've had on the
news for the last 4-6 weeks, and for the next 4-6 weeks, is nothing but
Democrat ads and speakers. There's a natural response to that showing in
the polls. It will melt back to reality as soon as coverage evens out once
again.

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Henry Kisor" > wrote in message
>
> > ....A Reuters poll today had Kerry leading Bush 48 to 45 per
> > cent (the rest undecided) if the election was held tomorrow. November's
a
> > long way away, though.
>
> This is pretty typical during an "out party" primary. All we've had on
the
> news for the last 4-6 weeks, and for the next 4-6 weeks, is nothing but
> Democrat ads and speakers. There's a natural response to that showing in
> the polls. It will melt back to reality as soon as coverage evens out
once

However, that showing is very atypical for the days following a State of The
Union address. I think the Bush message is no longer resonating with the
public. Bush has always been big on talk but small on results.

"Roger Long" m> writes:

> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President and
> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.

Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> "Roger Long" m> writes:
>
> > Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President and
> > avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
>
> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.

Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.

Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
>
> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?

Go ahead. Show your ignorance. Kerry was defined well before that.

in article , Jim Fisher at
wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:

> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.

To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.
And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.

in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 5:18 PM:

>
> "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Roger Long" m> writes:
>>
>>> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President and
>>> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
>>
>> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
>> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
>
> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
>
> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?

He'd still be a Forbes.

"Pilot Bob" > wrote in message news:N4ZQb.118043
>
> .......big on talk but small on results.
>
>

I don't think you're seeing the whole picture. Look at the world
strategically, and consider the changes taking place.

Kerry hasn't flown a plane except for TV. He rides in his wife's Ketchup
jet. He has no clue what it's like to do battle in the airport terminals,
for hours of delays.

He will steal your life savings after you die, before your children get it.

He will add more tax to your already overtaxed income.

He will allow trial attorneys to ruin aviation and health insurance.

He used the F**k word on national TV, on purpose to appeal to young voters.

He does not behave in a presidential manor. (see above)

W may have flaws and a history, but he learned from that and changed (aka
grew up). He did serve too, and flew f4's.

W is an excellent administrator. He realizes he doesn't have to know it all,
but he surrounds himself with VERY wise advisors. This is what good leaders
do. No one can know it all.

W has handled well, the worst and biggest challenge to America to date
(except maybe Abe's civil war)

W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.

The republican philosophy: self determination, individual freedom, lowers
taxes, less government, strong military is the only way this nation can
survive on a long term basis.

SK



"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Blue Thunder" > wrote in message
> u...
> > > I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry,

>
>

"Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
news:Qm_Qb.118312$sv6.642842@attbi_s52...
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> >
> > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
>
> Go ahead. Show your ignorance. Kerry was defined well before that.

Kerrey is a trophy spouse sent off to Washington; just like Boxer.

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Tarver Engineering at
> wrote on 1/25/04 5:18 PM:
>
> >
> > "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Roger Long" m>
writes:
> >>
> >>> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
and
> >>> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> >>
> >> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
> >> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
> >
> > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> >
> > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
>
> He'd still be a Forbes.

On Kerrey's $2 million, not likely.

But Mrs. Heinz has $500,000,000 and that lets Kerrey mortgage their house
for $6.5 million and win Iowa.

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Jim Fisher at
> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
>
> > Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
>
> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.
> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.

Except ther is no silver star.

"Stuart King" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.
>
Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.

Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies are
disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The Republicans,
under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party. We can argue about whether
Bush has made America safer - personally I don't believe he has. But there
is no way to argue that he has an economic plan that is even remotely
acceptable to future generations.

Michael

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:32:15 -0800 "Tarver Engineering" > wrote:

>
> "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> news:khYQb.117895$sv6.636439@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> > > > responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
> happened.
> > > > However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or
> twenty in
> > > > my younger years, too.
> > >
> > > It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill attendance
> was
> > > optional.
> >
> > Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's
> connections,
> > he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and even
> then
> > did not have the balls to meet his commitment.
>
> There were open slots in the ANG in Texas, for anyone elidgeable. When GW's

Eligible in that case meant you better be an quarterback or the son of a
rich man. Not just anyone got those slots. Everyone knew that then.
It's not been forgotten by a lot of people who had loved ones that died
serving their country. I won't forget either.


> F-102 unit changed over to a new airplane, there was no way they were going
> to pay to retrain a short timer. GW's job would have been to sit at a desk
> doing nothing.

Well at least you acknowledge that he decided he wasn't going to serve his country
because he got a boring desk job. Any way you slice it he did not fulfill his
responsibilities to his country. That's not someone I respect.



R. Hubbell
>
> > Now that may not mean much to
> > you, but to me it says a whole lot about character.
>
> You telling a lie tells me something about your character, but I fail to see
> how that reflects on anyone else.
>
>

"R.Hubbell" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:32:15 -0800 "Tarver Engineering" >
wrote:
>
> >
> > "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> > news:khYQb.117895$sv6.636439@attbi_s52...
> > >
> > > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > > Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk
some
> > > > > responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
happened.
> > > > > However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or
twenty in
> > > > > my younger years, too.
> > > >
> > > > It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill
attendance was
> > > > optional.
> > >
> > > Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's
connections,
> > > he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and
even then
> > > did not have the balls to meet his commitment.
> >
> > There were open slots in the ANG in Texas, for anyone elidgeable. When
GW's
>
> Eligible in that case meant you better be an quarterback or the son of a
> rich man. Not just anyone got those slots. Everyone knew that then.
> It's not been forgotten by a lot of people who had loved ones that died
> serving their country. I won't forget either.

Anyone that wanted to join the Texas ANG could, excluding felons and the
children of Kluxers. In fact, most of the draft dodgers of the day could
have joined the Guard just by relocating to a State with open slots.

> > F-102 unit changed over to a new airplane, there was no way they were
going
> > to pay to retrain a short timer. GW's job would have been to sit at a
desk
> > doing nothing.
>
> Well at least you acknowledge that he decided he wasn't going to serve his
country
> because he got a boring desk job. Any way you slice it he did not fulfill
his
> responsibilities to his country. That's not someone I respect.

Sure he did, but Dean dodged the draft.

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:SQ_Qb.116380$Rc4.910912@attbi_s54...
>
> "Stuart King" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.
> >
> Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.
>
> Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies are
> disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The
Republicans,
> under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party.

Reflation was an absolute necessity, otherwise America was headed into a
decade long downturn like Japan.

> We can argue about whether
> Bush has made America safer - personally I don't believe he has. But there
> is no way to argue that he has an economic plan that is even remotely
> acceptable to future generations.

If Gore were President he would have already apologised to the terrorists
for the second 9-11. Clinton/Gore facilitated al Qaeda's heroin
distribution in Bosnia and elsewhere.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:14:01 GMT "Stuart King" > wrote:



Dubya has signed every spending bill that has come across his desk.

He doesn't even read the newspaper.


> Kerry hasn't flown a plane except for TV. He rides in his wife's Ketchup
> jet. He has no clue what it's like to do battle in the airport terminals,
> for hours of delays.
>
> He will steal your life savings after you die, before your children get it.
>
> He will add more tax to your already overtaxed income.
>
> He will allow trial attorneys to ruin aviation and health insurance.
>
> He used the F**k word on national TV, on purpose to appeal to young voters.



This is funny!



>
> He does not behave in a presidential manor. (see above)


Well once he wins the election he'll live in a presidential manor.


>
> W may have flaws and a history, but he learned from that and changed (aka
> grew up). He did serve too, and flew f4's.


Flaws and history and soon he will be history.


>
> W is an excellent administrator. He realizes he doesn't have to know it all,
> but he surrounds himself with VERY wise advisors. This is what good leaders


He sourrounds himself with freaks like Karl Rove. Who is a hate monger.



> do. No one can know it all.
>
> W has handled well, the worst and biggest challenge to America to date
> (except maybe Abe's civil war)

He didn't handle it well at all. HE use it to settle some scores for his
Daddy.

>
> W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.

That's also very funny.

>
> The republican philosophy: self determination, individual freedom, lowers
> taxes, less government, strong military is the only way this nation can
> survive on a long term basis.

Must be nice to live in your own little world. :)


R. Hubbell

>
> SK
>
>
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Blue Thunder" > wrote in message
> > u...
> > > > I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry,
>
> >
> >
>
>

in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:

>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> in article , Tarver Engineering at
>> wrote on 1/25/04 5:18 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Roger Long" m>
> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
> and
>>>>> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
>>>> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
>>>
>>> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
>>>
>>> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
>>
>> He'd still be a Forbes.
>
> On Kerrey's $2 million, not likely.
>
> But Mrs. Heinz has $500,000,000 and that lets Kerrey mortgage their house
> for $6.5 million and win Iowa.

Whoa, are you telling me that becoming President costs a lot of money? Dude,
get the heck out of Dodge!

in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:

>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> in article , Jim Fisher at
>> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
>>
>>> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
>>
>> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.
>> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
>
> Except ther is no silver star.

Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry never
got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:53:09 -0600 "Jim Fisher" > wrote:

> "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> > That's the problem we have these days. Everyone knows Bush was AWOL during
> > his National Guard days,
>
> Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk some
> responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what happened.
> However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or twenty in
> my younger years, too.

Did you avoid fulfilling your swarn duties to your country? That goes far
beyond stupid.

So you think avoiding your swarn duties for your country is just a stupid
thing he did and it should be overlooked because he was young?

Sons of people with lots less money suffer much worse fate than being
thought of as young and stupid when they fail to fulfill their swarn
duties to their country.



R. Hubbell

>
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html seems to be a fairly decent
> accout of what actually happened but leave much to interpretation.
>
> and then he goes on to to wear a flight suit and
> > some people think he is a great leader.
>
> 'Cause he is . . . But history will have to be the final judge to that, I
> reckon.
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
> --
>
>

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> news:Qm_Qb.118312$sv6.642842@attbi_s52...
> > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> > >
> > > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> >
> > Go ahead. Show your ignorance. Kerry was defined well before that.
>
> Kerrey is a trophy spouse sent off to Washington; just like Boxer.


Double ignorance. It is "Kerry", not "Kerrey".

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Tarver Engineering at
> wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
>
> >
> > "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> in article , Tarver Engineering at
> >> wrote on 1/25/04 5:18 PM:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "Roger Long" m>
> > writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
> > and
> >>>>> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
> >>>> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
> >>>
> >>> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> >>>
> >>> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> >>
> >> He'd still be a Forbes.
> >
> > On Kerrey's $2 million, not likely.
> >
> > But Mrs. Heinz has $500,000,000 and that lets Kerrey mortgage their
house
> > for $6.5 million and win Iowa.
>
> Whoa, are you telling me that becoming President costs a lot of money?
Dude,
> get the heck out of Dodge!

Mrs. Heinz wants to buy the Whitehouse.

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Tarver Engineering at
> wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
>
> >
> > "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> in article , Jim Fisher at
> >> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
> >>
> >>> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
> >>
> >> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
Hearts.
> >> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
> >
> > Except ther is no silver star.
>
> Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry never
> got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.

Kerrey was put in for a silver star and awarded bronze.

"Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
news:Gm%Qb.118732$5V2.617458@attbi_s53...
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Pilot Bob" > wrote in message
> > news:Qm_Qb.118312$sv6.642842@attbi_s52...
> > > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> > > >
> > > > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> > >
> > > Go ahead. Show your ignorance. Kerry was defined well before that.
> >
> > Kerrey is a trophy spouse sent off to Washington; just like Boxer.

> Double ignorance. It is "Kerry", not "Kerrey".

Kerry is a trophy spouse sent off to Washington; just like Boxer.

Feel better now?

Mrs. Heinz wants to buy the Whitehouse.

>
>

According to this article, he flies N5PJ, a Cessna 421:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_0601.html

Rich

"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message news:<PnSQb.149453$na.246236@attbi_s04>...
> I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry, a democrat, is a
> certified pilot, I saw a quick episode of him flying a plane in left seat.
> There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a low
> wing. Just wanted to share what I saw.
>
> Toks Desalu

Tarver Engineering wrote:

> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
>>
>>
>>>"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>in article , Jim Fisher at
wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
>>>>
>>>>To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
>
> Hearts.
>
>>>>And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
>>>
>>>Except ther is no silver star.
>>
>>Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry never
>>got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.
>
>
> Kerrey was put in for a silver star and awarded bronze.

According to CNN (and numerous other sources), Kerry has been awarded both
distinctions:
"It was in 1971 that Kerry, then 27, appeared before the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee to speak out against U.S. policy in Vietnam.

His stance drew attention both because of his military record -- he had
served as an officer in the Navy and had been awarded a Silver Star, Bronze
Star and three Purple hearts ..."
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/kerry.html

in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 6:59 PM:

>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> in article , Tarver Engineering at
>> wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> in article , Tarver Engineering at
>>>> wrote on 1/25/04 5:18 PM:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Roger Long" m>
>>> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
>>> and
>>>>>>> avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
>>>>>> manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
>>>>
>>>> He'd still be a Forbes.
>>>
>>> On Kerrey's $2 million, not likely.
>>>
>>> But Mrs. Heinz has $500,000,000 and that lets Kerrey mortgage their
> house
>>> for $6.5 million and win Iowa.
>>
>> Whoa, are you telling me that becoming President costs a lot of money?
> Dude,
>> get the heck out of Dodge!
>
> Mrs. Heinz wants to buy the Whitehouse.

I got news for you-- ALL the candidates want to do that, and whoever wins,
whether it's Bush, Kerry or someone else, will have done exactly that.

in article , Tarver Engineering at
wrote on 1/25/04 6:59 PM:

>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> in article , Tarver Engineering at
>> wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> in article , Jim Fisher at
>>>> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
>>>>
>>>> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
> Hearts.
>>>> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
>>>
>>> Except ther is no silver star.
>>
>> Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry never
>> got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.
>
> Kerrey was put in for a silver star and awarded bronze.

He was awarded both. This is easily verified.

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Tarver Engineering at
> wrote on 1/25/04 6:59 PM:
> >> Whoa, are you telling me that becoming President costs a lot of money?
> > Dude,
> >> get the heck out of Dodge!
> >
> > Mrs. Heinz wants to buy the Whitehouse.
>
> I got news for you-- ALL the candidates want to do that, and whoever wins,
> whether it's Bush, Kerry or someone else, will have done exactly that.

Kerry is the only one with $6.5 million of his own money on the table.
(wife's money) The rest of the pack has enough doner support to avoid that.

"Peter" > wrote in message
news:LA%Qb.152462$na.260922@attbi_s04...
> Tarver Engineering wrote:
>
> > "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>in article , Tarver Engineering at
> wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>in article , Jim Fisher at
> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
> >>>>
> >>>>To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
> >
> > Hearts.
> >
> >>>>And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
> >>>
> >>>Except ther is no silver star.
> >>
> >>Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry
never
> >>got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.
> >
> >
> > Kerrey was put in for a silver star and awarded bronze.
>
> According to CNN (and numerous other sources), Kerry has been awarded both
> distinctions:
> "It was in 1971 that Kerry, then 27, appeared before the Senate Foreign
> Relations Committee to speak out against U.S. policy in Vietnam.

My mistake then.

Kerry sounds a lot like Davis.

You guys are giving both Kerry and W bad names...

"Robert L. Bass" > wrote in message
news:Vz0Rb.152987$na.262141@attbi_s04...
> You guys are giving both Kerry and W bad names...

That is what mud slinging does.

Did you think that trashing GW would go unchallenged?

Following is making the rounds on Internet.

Quote

On the campaign trail, White House wannabe Sen John Forbes Kerry
regularly mentions his Vietnam War combat experience, during which he
received three purple hearts, the Silver Star and Bronze Star. However
the Massachusetts Democrat doesn't like to talk much about how he
received the awards or the time after he returned home when he was
rubbing shoulders with Hanoi Jane Fonda as a much-celebrated organizer
for one of America's most radical pro-communist groups.

Kerry's betrayal of American prisoners of war, his blatant disrespect
for Vietnam veterans and the military, his support for communist
Vietnam and his waffling over the issue of use of force in Iraq proves
he cannot be relied on to protect the best interests of the United
States. Although Kerry voted to support military intervention in Iraq
he is now claiming that he only approved the threat of force by the
United States. The Constitution for the United States of America
states: "The President shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and
Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States
when called into the actual service of the United States; he may
require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of
the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of
their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves
and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of
impeachment". Read the following and decide for yourself if you trust
this man to be our Command-in-chief.

John Forbes Kerry was born, December 11, 1943, well connected in the
upper class due to his Forbes and Winthrop roots.

As a youth, Kerry is said to have idolized John F Kennedy, with whom
he and his family socialized. Kerry, often alluded to having the same
initials as President Kennedy,

Kerry graduated from Yale University in 1966.

Like JFK, who served in a WWII patrol boat, PT 109, Jerry took to the
water. He enlisted in the Navy and became an Officer.

After training, Kerry volunteered for VN. He served a relatively
uneventful six months, far removed from combat, from December 1967 to
June 1968, in the electrical department aboard the USS Gridley, a
guided-missle frigate that supported aircraft carriers in the Gulf of
Tonkin.

His ship returned to its Long Beach, CA, port on June 6, 1968. Five
months later, Kerry went back to VN, securing an assignment as "swift
boat" skipper.

Kerry commanded his first swift boat, No 44, from December 1968
through January 1969. He received no medals while serving on this
craft.

Kerry experienced his first intense combat action n Dec 2, 1968. He
was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart.

In late January 1969, Kerry joined a five-man crew on swift boat No 94
completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all of them in the Mekong
Delta.

Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a minor
shrapnel would in his left thigh on Feb 20, 1969.

Kerry was given a Silver Star for an action on Feb 28, 1969: When
Kerry's Patrol Craft 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he
beached his craft in the center of the enemy positions and a enemy
soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and
fled. The boats machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing VC as he
darted behind a hootch. The twin 50's gunner also fired at the VC. He
said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the
boat and dashed in to administer a "coupe de grace" to the wounded VC.
Kerry returned with a B-40 round and launcher.

Kerry received a Silver Star at An Thoi Feb 28, 1969

On March 13 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slightly
wounding Kerry in his right arm. He was awarded his third Purple
Heart.

After his third Purple Heart Kerry requested to be sent home. Navy
rules, he pointed out, allowed a thrice-wounded soldier to return to
the US immediately. His commander filled out a document March 17, 1969
that said Kerry had been thrice wounded in action while on active duty
in-country VN. Reassignment is requested.... as a personal aide in
Boston, NYC or Washington, DC.

Having engineered an early transfer out of the conflict because of
his three Purple Hearts, Kerry returned home to a sweet assignment as
an admiral's aide in April 1969.

In Oct 1969, Kerry began to associate with anti-war protester, Adam
Walinsky, a former speech writer for Robert Kennedy.

On Jan 3, 1970, Kerry requested that his superior grant him early
discharge from the Navy so he could run for Congress.

Kerry , a highly decorated veteran who seemed to be a clone of former
President JFK, right down to the military service on a patrol boat,
made a 1970 bid for Congress in Massachusetts' Third District.
Three-months later, when it became clear his opponent would get the
Democratic Party nomination Kerry dropped out.

Realizing that running for public office in Eastern Massachusetts as a
decorated VN veteran was not at that time politically correct, Kerry
moved hard left, seeking a leadership position in VN Veterans Against
the War (VVAW), a rabid pro-communisst veterans organization.

As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of
the US to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of
servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by
claiming that their blood was shed unnecessarily or in vain. Under
Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of US soldiers by
wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro communist graffiti. He
dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the
VC.

Kerry organized one of the most confrontational protests of the entire
VN War called Dewey Canyon III. It began April 18, 1971, with nearly
1000 VN vets gathered in the Washington, DC mall for what they called
"a limited incursion into the country of Congress".

On April 23,1971, Kerry led members of VVAW in a protest during which
they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the US
Capital.

At a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on April 23,
1971, Kerry took his case to Congress. With television cameras lining
the walls and Kerry dressed in his green fatigues decorated with his
Silver star ribbons, he gave testimony that defined him and made
possible his political career. In a style reminiscent of JFK, Kerry
asked, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in VN -- How do
you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GI's as so
brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's
Fedayeen killers. He told Congress that US soldiers had "personally
raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable
telephones to human genitals and turned the power up, cut off limbs,
blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot
cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generaly ravaged the
countryside of South VN.

By the following day, April 24, the publicity from the 22nd and 23rd
helped draw at least 250,000 people to the Mall in a massive protest.
Kerry, wearing his combat jacket addressed the rally from the Capital
steps. In less than a week, Kerry was transformed from little-known
former swift boat skipper to a national icon for a movement that
advocated against US involvement in VN and for the communist
Vietnamese.

Several weeks latter, Kerry was featured on 60 minutes. Correspondent
Morley Safer, in the segment, portrayed Kerry as an eloquent man who
has a "Kennedyesque" future. "Do you want to be president of the
United States?" Safer ask Kerry.

Vice President Agnew said that Kerry, who drew rave notices in the
media for his eloquent testimony before Congress, was using material
ghosted for him by a former Kennedy speech writer (Adam Walinsky).

During Memorial Day weekend, he joined a throng of antiwar protesters
on the green in Lexington, Mass., where he and hundreds of others were
arrested.

Kerry ran for election to the US House in 1972 during which he found
it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover of his own book,
The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted
several unkempt youths crudely handling an American Flag to mock the
famous photo of the US Marines at Iwo Jima.

He graduated from Boston College Law School in 1976, then worked as an
Assistant District Attorney in Middlesex county

He was elected Lt Governor in 1982.

Elected Junior US Senate in 1984 with the help of Ted Kennedy..

Am advise there is more to come.............................We'll see.

Big John


On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:44:31 GMT, "Toks Desalu"
> wrote:

>I was watching MSNBC recently and learned that John Kerry, a democrat, is a
>certified pilot, I saw a quick episode of him flying a plane in left seat.
>There is no way to recognize what kind of plane, but it is definitely a low
>wing. Just wanted to share what I saw.
>
>Toks Desalu
>

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Roger Long" m>
writes:
> >
> > > Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
and
> > > avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> >
> > Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
> > manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
>
> Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
>
> Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
>
And where would Teddy Kennedy, or the rest of the clan, be without his dad's
mafia connections?

"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Jim Fisher at
> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
>
> > Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
>
> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.
> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.


Well, John McCain has the Navy Cross (I believe), but I wouldn't/didn't vote
for him.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > in article , Jim Fisher at
> > wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
> >
> > > Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
> >
> > To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
Hearts.
> > And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
>
> Except ther is no silver star.
>
???

No, Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, and a Bronze Star with "V" device.

All that said does not equal credibility.

Hell, Hitler had the Iron Cross something or other equivalent to our
Distinguished Service Cross.

Big Whoop!!

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Roger Long" m>
> writes:
> > >
> > > > Not only that, he used his father's connections to become President
> and
> > > > avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> > >
> > > Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer mid-level
> > > manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
> >
> > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> >
> > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> >
> And where would Teddy Kennedy, or the rest of the clan, be without his
dad's
> mafia connections?

Boot legging Alcohol has been good for the Kennedys and the Clintons.
(Blythes) Those four Counties Hillary carried were all old bootlegger
money.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > in article , Tarver Engineering at
> > wrote on 1/25/04 6:21 PM:
> >
> > >
> > > "Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >> in article , Jim Fisher at
> > >> wrote on 1/25/04 11:02 AM:
> > >>
> > >>> Well, there's at least one redeeming quality.
> > >>
> > >> To go along with the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple
> Hearts.
> > >> And all in a war he was opposed to. I find that somewhat redeeming.
> > >
> > > Except ther is no silver star.
> >
> > Are you saying there's no such thing as a Silver Star, or that Kerry
never
> > got one? In both cases you'd be wrong.
>
> Kerrey was put in for a silver star and awarded bronze.
>
Nope; he had both.

> "Peter" > wrote in message
> news:LA%Qb.152462$na.260922@attbi_s04...
> >
> > According to CNN (and numerous other sources), Kerry has been awarded
both
> > distinctions:
> > "It was in 1971 that Kerry, then 27, appeared before the Senate Foreign
> > Relations Committee to speak out against U.S. policy in Vietnam.

And that testimony is going to be a part of his downfall when it gets
thoroughly analyzed during the later campaign.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael 182" > wrote in message
> news:SQ_Qb.116380$Rc4.910912@attbi_s54...
> >
> > "Stuart King" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > >
> > > W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.
> > >
> > Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.
> >
> > Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies are
> > disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The
> Republicans,
> > under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party.
>
> Reflation was an absolute necessity, otherwise America was headed into a
> decade long downturn like Japan.

www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1363

http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?record=298&month=12

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Michael 182" > wrote in message
> > news:SQ_Qb.116380$Rc4.910912@attbi_s54...
> > >
> > > "Stuart King" > wrote in message
> > > . com...
> > > >
> > > > W has turned the Clinton economy disaster around.
> > > >
> > > Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.
> > >
> > > Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies are
> > > disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The
> > Republicans,
> > > under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party.
> >
> > Reflation was an absolute necessity, otherwise America was headed into a
> > decade long downturn like Japan.
>
> www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1363

Except reflation has worked this time.

What fails is Socialism as Reflation. Under that condition you get a
permanent Depression; like FDR.

> http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?record=298&month=12

Your second article misses the point entirely. Japan was willing to lend
money, but unwilling to accept imports. That combination makes it nearly
impossible to pay back Yen. Dollars are easy to earn and pay back.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Roger Long" m>
> > writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Not only that, he used his father's connections to become
President
> > and
> > > > > avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer
mid-level
> > > > manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
> > >
> > > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> > >
> > > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> > >
> > And where would Teddy Kennedy, or the rest of the clan, be without his
> dad's
> > mafia connections?
>
> Boot legging Alcohol has been good for the Kennedys and the Clintons.
> (Blythes) Those four Counties Hillary carried were all old bootlegger
> money.

Not to mention his control over sugar rationing during WW2...and how some
"buddies" got favors that helped out a lot during the '60 election :~)

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Fry" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > "Roger Long" m>
> > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Not only that, he used his father's connections to become
> President
> > > and
> > > > > > avoid having to get a real job after being Governor of Texas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Exactly. Without the connections Bush II would be a boozer
> mid-level
> > > > > manager in some rinky-dink company in middle Texas.
> > > >
> > > > Just another wild cat closer out of Midland.
> > > >
> > > > Then again, where would Kerry be without catsup?
> > > >
> > > And where would Teddy Kennedy, or the rest of the clan, be without his
> > dad's
> > > mafia connections?
> >
> > Boot legging Alcohol has been good for the Kennedys and the Clintons.
> > (Blythes) Those four Counties Hillary carried were all old bootlegger
> > money.
>
> Not to mention his control over sugar rationing during WW2...and how some
> "buddies" got favors that helped out a lot during the '60 election :~)

And someone said, "crime doesn't pay". :)

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > > >
> > > > Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies
are
> > > > disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The
> > > Republicans,
> > > > under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party.
> > >
> > > Reflation was an absolute necessity, otherwise America was headed into
a
> > > decade long downturn like Japan.
> >
> > www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1363
>
> Except reflation has worked this time.

Worked? It's preventing the re-alignment that the economy desperately
needs.


>
> What fails is Socialism as Reflation. Under that condition you get a
> permanent Depression; like FDR.
>
> > http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?record=298&month=12
>
> Your second article misses the point entirely. Japan was willing to lend
> money, but unwilling to accept imports. That combination makes it nearly
> impossible to pay back Yen. Dollars are easy to earn and pay back.

No, you're missing the point. It's not imports/exports or any such that
stomped Japan and keep them in the economic sewer for a dozen years.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > Up to this one I was just going to say, oh well, we just disagree.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even my Republican friends complain that Bush's economic policies
are
> > > > > disasterous. The Dem's used to be labeled "tax and spend". The
Republicans,
> > > > > under Bush, are the "borrow and spend" party.
> > > >
> > > > Reflation was an absolute necessity, otherwise America was headed
into a
> > > > decade long downturn like Japan.
> > >
> > > www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1363
> >
> > Except reflation has worked this time.
>
> Worked? It's preventing the re-alignment that the economy desperately
> needs.

The only thing preventing a realignment of the economy is Japan's heavy
intervention in currency markets. The EU proclaimed their intent to
intervene to stop the dollar realignment last week.

> > What fails is Socialism as Reflation. Under that condition you get a
> > permanent Depression; like FDR.
> >
> > > http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?record=298&month=12
> >
> > Your second article misses the point entirely. Japan was willing to
lend
> > money, but unwilling to accept imports. That combination makes it
nearly
> > impossible to pay back Yen. Dollars are easy to earn and pay back.
>
> No, you're missing the point. It's not imports/exports or any such that
> stomped Japan and keep them in the economic sewer for a dozen years.

Sure it is. Japan went out and loaned a lot of Yen in Asia and made it
impossible to pay Yen back. That was way dumb.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> > No, you're missing the point. It's not imports/exports or any such that
> > stomped Japan and keep them in the economic sewer for a dozen years.
>
> Sure it is. Japan went out and loaned a lot of Yen in Asia and made it
> impossible to pay Yen back. That was way dumb.

That's not what got Japan in trouble.

http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?record=322&month=13
Japan Can't Inflate Away Its Woes
by JEFFREY HERBENER

[From the Asian Wall Street Journal;
October 28, 1999, Page 10;

[Excerpt]
Economists have been counseling inflation to cure Japan's ills, while
warning of the grave dangers of deflation. This is sheer nonsense. Nothing
apart from war has damaged economic prosperity in the 20th century as much
as the loose money and credit policies of the world's central banks, from
Germany in the 1920s to China in the 1940s, to various South American
countries in the 1980s, to Indonesia and Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

It is precisely because of these policies that Japan now finds itself in the
midst of a financial debacle. Having inflated the yen money stock by 10.5%
per year from 1986-90, and having brought the discount rate down to 0.5% in
1997 from 6% in 1991, the Bank of Japan essentially inflated the nation into
an artificial boom. Rather than allow this boom to be corrected, however,
economists are calling for even more of what caused it. The alternative --
deflation -- is deemed such a fearsome enemy that even perpetual
central-bank monetary inflation is an acceptable defense against it. There
are two schools of thought with explanations why this should be so.

[End Excerpt]


Also

Explaining Japan's Recession
by Benjamin Powell
[ December 3, 2002]

After decades of "miracle" economic growth since World War II, Japan's
economy abruptly faltered in 1990 and has stagnated since. Why? Neither the
Keynesian nor Monetarist explanations can provide an account. Only the
Austrian theory of the business cycle provides the explanation.

An Overview of Japan's Economy 1985–2000

After the September 1985 Plaza Accord, the yen's appreciation hit the export
sector hard, reducing economic growth from 4.4 percent in 1985 to 2.9
percent in 1986 (EIU 2001).1 The government attempted to offset the stronger
yen by drastically easing monetary policy betw